1:12:25

Cory Doctorow and Joe Betts-Lacroix on Adversarial Interoperability

Name: Cory Doctorow and Joe Betts-Lacroix on Adversarial Interoperability
Uploaded: 2020-07-21T21:48:06.180Z
Duration: 1 h 12 min 25 s
Description: Adversarial interoperability (“adversarial interop”) lets startups turn incumbents’ customers into their own customers by plugging into a platform without permission, as historically done with Samba and Apple’s iWork. A thicket of legal tools (DMCA, CFAA, tortious interference) now makes this legally risky, but the hiQ Ninth Circuit decision shows scraping can be protected.

From Y Combinator · Published Jul 21, 2020 · Watch on YouTube

TL;DR

Adversarial interoperability (“adversarial interop”) lets startups turn incumbents’ customers into their own customers by plugging into a platform without permission, as historically done with Samba and Apple’s iWork. A thicket of legal tools (DMCA, CFAA, tortious interference) now makes this legally risky, but the hiQ Ninth Circuit decision shows scraping can be protected.

Key insights

Adversarial interoperability has been pivotal in tech history (Samba reverse‑engineering Microsoft’s SMB; Apple cloning Microsoft’s file formats for iWork).
The current legal environment (software patents, DMCA anti‑circumvention, CFAA used for ToS violations, tortious interference) creates a “kill zone” that deters compatible products.
A theory of change: doing something legally fraught but loved creates a constituency for normative and legal shifts, plus surplus capital to fund legal battles.

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